“By Any Means Necessary” was the slogan of the Black Panthers in the late 60’s, when black activists became frustrated by the perceived ineffectiveness of non-violent resistance and decided it was time to take a stronger stand. Now a larger population faces the same decision related to the Democratic Party.
Video replay at https://youtu.be/FYWKFU1yIPk
Oh for pity’s sake – can you just change the name of the group to “Bernie – no matter what anyone actually thinks” and move on??
Gaslighting.
Sanders isn’t a Democrat. The progressive Democrat will be dropping out because we can’t have a smart qualified woman.
Mary Cronin Who cares if he’s a Democrat. In the 1800s Democrats were pro slavery. What’s important is where he stands on the issues. Maybe we should try voting for the issues and not whether someone has a (D) next to their name.
I’m far less concerned with label conformity than with integrity.
If there was a viable option he wouldn’t be a Democrat. Don’t be mad at Bernie, be mad at our ridiculous two party system corrupted by money on both sides.
Mary Cronin
how about we all ban together and do whatever we can to elect the democrat who comes out on top after the primaries and do ANYTHING we can to replace trump?
Okay. So we all ban (sic) together under the one genuinely and consistently progressive candidate in the race. What’s the problem with that?
John Henry DeJong the problem is that young people stayed home. The problem is that Democrats had a choice and they didn’t choose that. So now we have to look at what the majority wants and go with that. Because there are real kids out there in real cages and there is a real pandemic spreading across our country. Because we are at risk of having a 6-3 minority in the SCOTUS that will take decades to change. What good is M4A if they courts strike it down? And people can cast a protest vote, but does that fix those things?
John Henry DeJong the majority appears to prefer the moderate approach. So as a progressive, you throw your manpower behind the moderate candidate, get him elected and you work from the inside out to make the progressive changes you want to make. But let’s get the kids out of the cages first.
Elizabeth Raley absolutely! They need to quit whining and unite.
More gaslighting. “The majority appears” no they don’t. The majority stays home because they feel like their voices don’t matter. “Quit whining.” Gaslighting.
One campaign doesn’t rely on those tactics, and one campaign’s followers don’t fall for them.
Entrenched power never benefits from an engaged and informed electorate. Those who believe they benefit from entrenched power can easily be manipulated into discouraging engagement and spreading misinformation and disinformation.
In all this last week or so of people jumping all over me and Mike whenever we post anything pro-Sanders, *not one time* has anyone offered a) a logically supportable reason not to vote for him or b) a reasoned and fact-based advocacy of another candidate.
Don’t mistake successful manipulation for public opinion. A lot of energy has gone in to discouraging young people from voting. Lot of social pressure. That isn’t young people failing to vote; it’s old people failing young people.
Sonja Cowsert Been watching that for fifty years, it’s kept us at the same minimum wage for thirty and destroyed the middle class.
John Henry for me a fact-based argument against a Bernie vote is this.
The Senate is Republican, and likely to remain so. If Dems do flip the Senate, the seats in play would only give Dems a razor thin margin. As the campaign revealed, Democrats in the Senate and House are divided on Bernie’s plans. Nothing like the agenda that he recently released would get through this Congress that he will have to work with.
Bernie doesn’t do politics, he does revolution. But, he isn’t going to face a “revolutionary”Congress. Thanks
“It COULD be that I don’t think Bernie works well with others”
Have you worked with him? Do you work well with people who are engaged in dishonorable behavior?
“I don’t want someone who sees the presidency as a solo act.”
And what’s your basis for assuming Sanders sees things this way?
“Or maybe that Sanders has said NOTHING positive about anyone other than himself.”
Flat out lie.
“Or that I want everyone to have health coverage but I DON’T want authoritarianism to be the way we get it.”
Authoritarianism has nothing to do with it. Plenty of other democratic countries have it.
“Or that I just spent nearly four years of watching a president who played only to his specific cult-like base and I don’t want another four years of that.”
Well-poisoning; logical falacy.
“Or that I despise catchphrases like “neoliberal”, “establishment” and “centrist” being overused in place of substance.”
Faulty logic; Pointing to misuse of labels to infer that all use of those labels is invalid.
“Or that I’m tired of someone showing up EVERY TIME I say I prefer someone OTHER than Bernie and saying I “just dont like Bernie” or I’m “anyone but Bernie” or it’s gaslighting” because their opinion is an opinion but mine is bias. I’m not a “real” liberal and act as if it’s an assault on God.”
Yeah, when you advocate for “vote blue no matter who” and then turn around and say “but not Sanders,” that’s “anyone but Bernie,” isn’t it? When you accuse people who support Sanders of “whining” or make up flat-out lies about objective reality, that’s gaslighting isn’t it? When you engage in a behavior and someone observing that behavior properly labels it and then you complain about the label, isn’t that gaslighting? Isn’t that manipulation? When you claim to want unity, but only if we’re uniting behind what you want, isn’t that manipulation? Why isn’t it?
You understand that “neoliberalism” is a thing, a legitimate term of political science that describes much of the current Democratic Party, yes? So why not use that word?
Ken Scott “The Senate is Republican, and likely to remain so.” Basis for this assumption?
“Nothing like the agenda that he recently released would get through this Congress that he will have to work with.” I don’t know what Congress he’ll have to work with. I think that depends largely on whether young people and progressives are frozen out of the process again. If the same thing that happened in 2016 happens this year, it’ll have the same result.
“Bernie doesn’t do politics, he does revolution.” A matter of opinion…but so? People are dying of preventable illnesses because they can’t afford health care; people are voting against their own interests because they can’t get educated; people are living in the streets when we have six times as many empty homes as homeless people. Doesn’t that suggest that, in the face of decades of inaction and tepid compromise, a revolution is in order?
“But, he isn’t going to face a “revolutionary”Congress. ”
See above; I don’t think it’s legitimate to make this assumption.
John Henry you are very right about the crying needs in our country. But, Sanders will be facing Republicans who were perfectly willing to overturn the ACA with no replacement.
I base my speculation on some facts. See link below on Republican battleground opportunities. Just to get back to pre-2018 votes Democrats have to get back two seats and not lose any races. That gets down to 10 Republican seats with which to gain a majority. Again Democrats can’t lose any seats. For me a sobering fact is that if Dems win all Republican battleground seats, and don’t lose any, that still wouldn’t give Dems 67 votes, the number needed to convict Trump on the impeachment charges. Thanks
I appreciate you bringing facts to the table, although I disagree with your conclusions. Not sure what the supermajority necessary for impeachment really has to do with it, unless you’re figuring on a second Trump term.
John Henry how were progressives and young voters frozen out of the process last Tuesday? They just didn’t show up and even those who showed up didn’t vote in a majority for Sanders. And looking at the 2018 mid-terms, it was overwhelmingly moderate Democrats who took back the House (with the down ballot help of other Democrats by the way, something Sanders refuses to do.)
Jessica Morris I remember this exact argument a quarter century ago. And I know people who were making the same argument 40 years ago. When do you stop retreating and take a stand?
Jack York when people start voting for the revolution.
The 2 party system needs to die like yesterday.
Please see remarks in prior shows regarding Duverger’s Law. You want the “two party system” to be gone, amend the constitution for proportional representation instead of first-past-the-post single member districts.
I find it funny that POC voted for Biden yet it’s all ‘being stolen from Bernie’ it’s an election. People vote.
Sorry, Heather, but latinos are people of color — they didn’t vote Biden. They voted overwhelmingly Bernie. That just might have something to do with Barack/Biden deporting more people than any other president in history. But don’t worry — I’m sure they’ll show up for Biden in the general.
Another Dem group turned to sycophant Bernie bro’s! Bye felicia
False narrative; manipulation; dishonesty; sexism.
Par for the course… the ven diagram of libs and chuds is a circle.
Edit: the guy has a fucking logo of the people his ancestors exterminated as his profile picture. Hahahaha holy shit, can’t make this up
Peter Binder Hey asshole, a.) I’m not a guy and B.) I’m black! So, that would be your fucked up ancestors who enslaved my people, you fucking, causal, liberal bigot! You motherfuckers, are the same ones who are all for equality, until someone black moves into your neighborhood! You, your bros & Bernie can fuck right off a cliff!
Michelle Kay Not sure why you’re addressing Peter; I don’t see any of his comments here.
I do see mine.
Meet my family.
https://www.amazon.com/Stranger-Sojourner-Frontiersman-Antebellum-Arkansas/dp/1557288054/
Try again.
Passing ain’t just for the left lane, ya know?
…”being pushed”? how about, “more votes”? This is insulting to the most vulnerable Americans who, much as they may want it, cannot afford the chance of a “radical change” but rather a safe road back to some kind of ‘normalcy’…for their lives…
This is distortion and disinformation. I *am* a “most vulnerable American,” and I don’t have time to wait anymore for people to negotiate and foot-drag their way to deciding that I deserve to live.
John Henry …so, walk us through how a “revolution” or “a million people will rise up” gets those things done if we do not win the Presidency and/or the Senate?
Neal Polister – it won’t, that’s the point. That’s also the point of insisting that a candidate who energizes the party and brings in new people will also somehow be unable to elevate down-ballot candidates. Also, your question contains a manipulative and unfounded assumption that Sanders can’t win, and that if he’s the candidate we can’t win the Senate; there’s no factual basis for this.
John Henry …so you believe that a candidate who regularly trashes the party he is “representing”, who calls them the “enemy” and whose supporters openly jeer and mock other members of that party will bring along those other, somehow less worthy Democrats on the coattails of his win? That even if we won the Senate with Sanders in the WH, those members of the Senate (and House), whom he regularly derides and demonizes will work with hm to get his grand plans implemented?…walk us through, in a practical, “how sit gets done in government” way, how that’s happening?…
John Henry …there is also virtually no data to support the contention that Sanders, “energizes the party” nor, “brings in new people”…the demo he supposedly “energized” didn’t show up in massive numbers so far in the primary season, much like they spent more time on Twitter than in the voting booth, electing Dems, in 2016…
Rosann Baumann …self victimization…it’s one (of the many) things the MAGA crowd and the Berners have in common…
Neal Polister not even. The problem that we need to face the fact that Americans value their racism more then they value a better living condition for themselves. The money wins again
Rosann Baumann I’m disabled, unemployed, and if not for the generosity of my family I’d be homeless.
John Henry …I wouldn’t worry, though, the Trump administration will be helping you out by cutting health care an SNAP benefits…no problem not voting for the Dem nominee…
And I’ve been homeless in the past.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_fcmtsRgLg
I realize that having never really been in need you can’t conceive of the idea that other people really have been, but have a good look. Watch me live on the streets. And dare speak to me in that tone and call me a liar again.
John Henry …I’m sure Obama wasn’t “pure” enough for you…
John Henry …you, “realize that having never been in need”? Could you explain to the class how you came to “realize” the entire life situation of a total stranger on social media?…
Rosann Baumann …was this to our friend, “John”?
I used to like this site but now it seems you’re more bent on dividing the Democratic voters/party. Wtf!!!!!
Echo chambers suck. Multiple admins; multiple perspectives.
The president isn’t that important when it comes to what policies will be put in place. That power belongs to congress. We need to vote more progressives into congress. If a Medicare-for-all bill makes it to the president’s office, I dont think it’ll matter whether the person who signs it is Bernie or Biden.
Daryl Wofford Biden won’t sign it. Big difference
He’ll sign it if the demand is there.
Trump definitely won’t
Daryl Wofford Biden does what he’s paid to do. Those of us with long memories remember how fast a 180 the Clintons did on healthcare
Among many, many other things that Bernie can do without Congress — he could obliterate your federal debts on day one. People don’t seem to grasp the concept of the unitary executive.
Daryl Wofford I guess you missed the part where Drumpf and Justice Kennedy took power away from Congress?
Carol Lister I guess you missed the part where the president didn’t take any power away from congress that congress didnt cede willingly for political expediency, and that goes back a lot further than Trump. Congress can take all that power back, and needs to. Congress can change the makeup of the supreme court. Congress can seriously limit the executive branch. The power of congress is vast if they have the balls to use it.
I’m speaking to you in the same disrespectful tone you were speaking to me. Thank tou.
We have more than two parties, the fact is the others doesn’t have the people who support them like democrats and republicans.
Why is it easier to blame the party for Sanders failings than the people who couldn’t be bothered to come out and vote. He was supposed to be the champion of young and first time voters and yet only 13% came out to vote!!
Because the dialogue is distorted by lots of people deliberately discouraging them?
John Henry If your message gets through, it gets through no matter what.
Vote Blue!
I’m a liberal I would love for Bernie Sanders to win the nomination because I think this country, this world need leaders like him to fight for the middle class and poor with that being said if he doesn’t I’m not going to sit there and cry about it and play the blame game because enough of Bernie’s voters didn’t show up I’m going to get behind whoever gets the nomination because trump needs to go
I do not see in the primary results a majority charge for Radical Change. I see more votes for centrists wanting a return to normalcy. Plus you need to accomplish something to have the power to make monumental change.
If Bernie or Warren had pushed Medicare for all who wanted it and stopped promising free everything else,they would win the nomination easily.
Keith Lofton You probably have a good point.
Keith Lofton No. They would win your vote, but not every one wants what you want.
Carol Lister It’s not what I want..they sure didn’t win doing it their way,did they?
Keith Lofton How do you know who won before the candidate is chosen and before the election?
Carol Lister Bernie won’t win on the 2nd ballot,and neither will win on the 1st ballot
obama was a moderate centrist.
David Ewers and? *yawn*
Yes, Gay Marriage is extremely moderate centrist.
Jake Townsend and Biden spoke out for it before Obama did.
Sarah Borisly look at the name of this group
Your commentary is sad yet amusing.
Kinda like this comment
Once again…. sorry the truth hurts your feelings. “The establishment” pushed nobody. They abandoned Joe Biden a couple of months ago but the voters said otherwise. Bernie needs to stop crying about his loses and blame himself instead of “the establishment”
Mhm. Go with that. Enjoy your victory. Frankly at this point, I’m just one conscience short of voting for Biden in the primary myself, just to watch the results. Unfortunately, I’ll have to live with them too, and so will people I love, so I have to miss out on that.
Once again…. sorry facts bother you so much.
William Schu Schumacher Don’t flatter yourself. You didn’t present any facts, and I’m not bothered.
John Henry … Super Tuesday votes are all the facts I need pal. #yesyouarebothered
Pretty sure he’s looking for his daughter, or his sister, or his wife… he can’t really remember.
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